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Hosted by Erica Jolene and Kristyn Newbern | Transcription HERE

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Atypical Truth Season Two episode cover art. Blue background with white font that reads “Luke & Ozzie” along the top, and “Brothers, Dancing To The Beat Of Their Own Drum” at the bottom. At the center, framed in a circle, is the photo of Luke (white male toddler with bright blue eyes and short sandy-blonde hair, wearing a white shirt) and Ozzie (white male newborn, with wisps of dark black hair, wrapped in a green swaddle). Luke is pictured smiling while holding his new baby brother. There is a sense of big-brother pride and excitement.
Atypical Truth Season Two episode cover art. Blue background with white font that reads “Luke & Ozzie” along the top, and “Brothers, Dancing To The Beat Of Their Own Drum” at the bottom. At the center, framed in a circle, is the photo of Luke (white male toddler with bright blue eyes and short sandy-blonde hair, wearing a white shirt) and Ozzie (white male newborn, with wisps of dark black hair, wrapped in a green swaddle). Luke is pictured smiling while holding his new baby brother. There is a sense of big-brother pride and excitement.

Growing a family does not look the same for everyone. In the fourth and final personal episode with Kristyn Newbern, she shares about the difficult decisions, obstacles, and challenges they faced in their pursuit to grow into a family of four. Kristyn details the stark and perhaps even painful acknowledgment of the differences between newborn-Luke and newborn-Ozzie. We discuss how eye-opening it is as parents to see our children developing with two distinctly different personalities. Kristyn opens up about learning to trust that Ozzie is healthy and she shares the differences in her worries for them both. Finally, Kristyn leaves us with some really powerful advice for any parent who is facing a complex medical journey.

Links related to this episode:

Congenital Heart Defects

Noonan Syndrome


Preimplantation Genetic Testing


Episode Transcription

Kristyn 00:01

Are you ready? Here we go. (Ozzie bursts with belly laughter)

Erica 00:30

Welcome to Season Two of Atypical Truth. I'm your host, Erica Jolene. Humans are storytelling beings. I created this podcast to amplify the stories of people in my community, the community of people with rare diseases, disabilities, and complex medical conditions. Not only will you hear from my peers in this community, but you will also hear the stories from family, friends and professionals who advocate with us.

Erica 01:01

Those amazing bursts of giggles were brought to you by Ozzie Newbern. Not only did he make a special guest appearance on this episode, but so much of this episode is about him and all the excitement and new lessons that he has brought into the lives of the Newberns. My guest host for this season is Kristyn Newbern. Kristin is a fellow medical mom to her son Luke, who was born with congenital heart defects and later diagnosed with a rare genetic disorder called Noonan Syndrome. In today's episode, Kristyn touches on some of the decisions that are her and her husband Kevin had to navigate when deciding how to grow their family. And I just want to say from the top that this is not an episode where we go into a deep dive regarding IVF and Preimplantation Genetic Testing. That is something that will be discussed in more detail later in this season, as we have conversations with clinical professionals and professionals who have this lived experience. But I do ask that you please listen with an open mind and an open heart. I know there's a lot of varying opinions about reproductive choices. And I believe that these are private matters and personal decisions that everyone should be respectful of. Kristyn has chosen to be vulnerable and to share about their experience in hopes that it helps others who may face similar decisions, obstacles, and challenges in their pursuit to grow their family. She also chose to share about this in hopes that it does provide some perspective regarding the very difficult decisions that families navigate when they learn that they're carriers of a life-threatening genetic disease. So again, we only briefly touch on that in this episode.

Erica 03:01

Our main focus today is on the evolution that baby Ozzie has brought to each of the Newberns lives. Kristyn shares about the stark and perhaps even painful acknowledgment of the differences between newborn-Luke and newborn-Ozzie. We discuss how eye-opening it is as parents to see our children developing with two very different personalities. We also share just how naive and wrong we were to think that we had this parenting gig all figured out, until of course that second child came along to prove us completely wrong. I also get to ask Kristyn this question that I've often found myself wondering about, for families who go on to have children without medical conditions, which is: how and when do they ever trust that everything is okay? And as expected, it is not an easy, cut and dry answer. And finally, to wrap up this wonderful time that we have spent getting to know Kristyn, I get to ask her about her Atypical Truth. And she shares some really powerful advice not just for parents of children with congenital heart defects, but for any parent who is facing a complex medical journey.

Kristyn 04:54

We became a family of four, 18 months ago. But about a little over three years ago, we found out through Luke's genetic testing, that becoming a family of four might not be a possibility for us. And I know there are a lot of families who face that same difficult news, maybe in different for different circumstances, or because of different causes. And some for similar, where they are learning about their child's genetic condition being inherited recessive trait where both parents are the asymptomatic carriers, a very specific gene mutation. So we were just starting the journey in 2018, of learning what the path forward looks like, we knew that we wanted to be a family of four. But of course, not everyone gets everything that they planned on or anticipated in growing and creating their families. So we were dealing with some of these realities and I think really, every single step felt like well, this, this should be it right, we should be able to, to get there now. Or, or maybe even with a glass half empty approach. Not another step, not another test, we have to do not another appeal, we have to write, you know, or organization we need to bring into this, this journey that was so easy for us the first round, right? So with Luke we, we didn't incur any of the medical intervention that we did with Ozzy. And we are so fortunate in that, but it I think it made that experience, it gave us so much perspective, and so much empathy for so many of these families who are going through that. So we did, we went through this gigantic, long journey before as he was born. And then he was born. And I remember, I remember he was, you know, first handed to me in the delivery room. He was trying to eat my chin. And I have video footage because of some wonderful nurse in the delivery room, grabbing my phone and capturing this footage. You know, he was trying to eat my chin and I remember eating is such a big deal for our medically complex kiddos and feeding when they're newborns and infants and Luke not being able to eat by mouth for his first month and even then still struggling through really the next year trying to eat, trying to put on weight try not to have reflux, all of these issues that we dealt with and struggles that he had. And then here comes Ozzie just ready to go. And and you know I can't even explain, you know the difference that you feel as a parent, just this like flood of this variety of emotions, right? You feel relief, because you want it to be that easy for all of your kids, you want every step to be easy. And then this this kind of angst, or this remorse, or this grief, realizing just the wide difference in what that one milestone or that one step in Luke's life, what he had to endure and go through and overcome just to hit this.

Kristyn 08:51

So I would say that was kind of the first example, you know, minutes into Ozzie's life. That was the first example where I felt that kind of flood of emotions that I'm sure many parents of kids who are physically and medically healthy and kids with medical complexities have. I will say, that is a very common question that I am asked is, "What is it like to have Ozzie to have a healthy baby and, you know, compared to having Luke who had so many medical challenges?" And I've had, so I've had a lot of reflection time on this. And I will say that physically, it is exhausting to be a mom, to be a new mom. It doesn't matter what's going on with your kid medically. I mean, we were so fortunate. I don't think Ozzie had doctor visit other than his regularly scheduled ones. I don't know maybe not even to this day. You know, he's been in such good health. But he doesn't like to sleep. He never has. He doesn't like to miss out on anything, I suppose. Physically, it's exhausting to be a parent, doesn't matter if your kid is healthy or if there are medical complexities. But the emotional, the mental strain, the constant stress, and second guessing and moments of panic, and, you know, true, warranted moments of panic and these traumatic events. When you are the parent of a baby with these medical diagnoses, these complexities, there's just this constant dull roar in the back of your head, this pit in your stomach that I at least did not experience with Ozzie. You still worry about things, you still have anxiety about your kid, you still have the sleepless nights, you still struggle with some feeding or you struggle with other things. But for my experience, I think that was the biggest difference, just kind of in this high level objective view, was that that piece did not exist with Ozzie because he had his health.

Kristyn 11:26

I will also say that Ozzie has brought this tremendous personality to our family, this independence and this audacity to push the limits, to not even recognize the limits! There are so many things that Ozzie has introduced into our family, that I am, I am just done, I am grateful, I am impressed, I am consistently challenged by. So whether it is trying to push his entire body through the gates at the top of our stairs, whether it is not even not worrying about or recognizing the distance between the top of the bed and the bottom of the floor, you know, when he's testing out just how fast he can crawl or run. So many hilarious and amazing things that he has brought into our family that I think has, it's made Luke, a very, a very vigilant and watchful older brother. And I think it fits, their personalities fit together so well. They are entirely different, but they fit together in such a beautiful way that I just truly, I am so happy that...I mean, obviously I'm happy that he's here. But I'm so grateful that it's him. And that we we did Ozzie in our lives and as part of our family, because he's just he's just the perfect piece to our puzzle.

Erica 13:15

I really appreciate the message that Kristyn provides here, which is that parenting is hard. Period. It's hard. Okay, can I get an Amen? Everyone, and I mean, everyone has their own version of hard. But I do feel that it is important to acknowledge that there are different versions of hard and each comes with varying degrees of short-term or long-term physical and mental distress. I especially love how Kristyn mentioned "the constant dull roar of worry" that many parents experience when they have children who've been diagnosed with a complex or chronic medical condition. And I think it's really helpful that she distinguished the very real difference of that, from the more typical worries that parents experience when raising a child who was born without any sort of medical conditions or complications. And also think that there's another important theme to take away from this. And that is the fact that every child is different, each born with their own unique personality. And that difference, it transcends all others and it also shapes our experiences as parents raising those children. In this next clip Kristyn and I share pretty vulnerable examples of just that.

Erica 15:16

I can't discern whether he did or didn't get the memo that he was entering a family who may have some anxiety issues.

Kristyn 15:24

(laughter) He, I don't know. Maybe?

Erica 15:28

Did he get the memo and "He's like, Okay, well, the best way to solve this problem is to just go full speeds, they just, they give up on worrying." You know?

Kristyn 15:36

It is so funny, because I think as you challenges Kevin more than he challenges me, because Kevin is very neat and organized. And he really likes order in like, his space and his things in a way that I respect, but it's not inherent to me. And Luke also shares that quality that Kevin does, and he enjoys his order, and his, you know, neatness in space. And Ozzy, he will rip open a drawer, he will empty entire toy boxes, and throw things just to see how far they can travel. And it's an it's not a destructive, it's an exploratory adventure for him. And he's happy, and he's laughing the whole time, which makes me happy. But I will , (laughter) I will say that Kevin, and he would agree to this, has has really had to learn a lot in the patience department when it comes to just the destruction that is our second child.

Kristyn 16:52

I tell you, I'll tell you a story that kind of puts me in my place a little bit here. When Luke was two, we went to a baby shower, and I've been to a million baby showers or a million events or parties with Luke, throughout his growing up, if you kind of bookend COVID, right? I remember, there were other party attendees there too, with young kids probably about Luke's age, or maybe even a little younger. And these moms spent the entire time chasing their little kiddos around and saying, "No, no or no hands or no touch," and pulling things out of their mouths and pulling things out of their hands and apologizing for messes and cleaning up spills. And I remember sitting there with kind of this total superiority complex, where I thought, I must be the world's best mom, because here's my child behaving perfectly at this baby shower was with all these adults, and he is just sweetly offering to help you know, the the mom to be open presents. And, and I remember that and it's one of those times of of just sheer ignorance, right? And I fully call myself out on having those feelings and then now realizing that that was just me, benefiting from the natural demeanor of my very responsible and calm and orderly first child and not anticipating the fact that that was not a result of my wildly superior parenting skills.

Erica 18:54

That was a not a reflection of you.

Kristyn 18:57

That is just one time that I am admitting to having those thoughts and feelings so I am sure I fully fully reaped what I've sown there.

Erica 19:08

You know what though? I feel the same thing about Margot, and I didn't realize for so long I thought Margot's personality - her calm demeanor, her just totally laid back, doesn't it really make a sound really never cried unless something was truly wrong. She laughs and she smiles, it comes in these spurts. But like overall, she's just really laid back. Not attention seeking. Just chill. I think there's no other word for it. She's just chill. In hindsight, I actually feel bad because I thought that was a part of her disabilities. I'm willing to admit it and doesn't make me feel great, but I thought she was so calm because maybe cognitively she wasn't able to do certain things. And then her brother came into our life. And I think I've seen my daughter eye roll now more than they ever have!

Erica 20:09

That's great!

Erica 20:11

Cognitively, physically, all the things, they are practically a carbon copy of each other, with exception to their personalities. Margot is laid back because she is an angel set from above, whose personality has nothing to do with me or her disability. Caratacus, on the other hand, he came into this world, letting everyone know, that Caratacus has arrived, and that personality trait in him has never subsided. It's so interesting, it may just be that second child thing? Or the youngest?

Kristyn 20:45

I agree with you. I think so because I do... It's funny, because do I...(stumbles with excitement) Okay, so I'm going to ask you a question. Do you hold on to some of the, like, parents of "healthy kids," the like, conversations or topics that you can relate to them on? Do you hold on to those as closely as I do.

Erica 21:11

UmmHmm. And this is one of them, right?

Kristyn 21:14

That's one of them. And I so I love being able to talk about that with any parent. Because it is it's so true. It transcends, you know, parenting approaches, and it transcends ability and disability and diagnoses and everything like that, that like, these kids are their own people. And they, and they do they act accordingly. And despite your best, you know, efforts to be in control or anything like that. It is something that's so I think it's just so wonderful about just the natural progression of life and of families. And it's one of the topics that I I just love being able to talk about with pretty much any family.

Erica 22:09

I'm so glad we got to talk about it.

Erica 22:15

Earlier I mentioned how everyone experiences varying versions of hard. And just as they are varying versions of challenges and difficulties, there are also very diversions of comfort and support that come with each experience, both raising a child with special health care needs, and raising a child without this constant health care support. For parents of newborns who require medical intervention and support, our children are born into this world where a vast and knowledgeable care team is awaiting them. From day one, us parents, we have nurses, therapists, nutritionists, and doctors guiding and supporting us. And while I know this is going to be an unpopular opinion, because this style of parenting, it feels so very unconventional and unexpected. But it is important to acknowledge that there's a certain degree of comfort and support that we gain from having so many professionals involved in the well-being of our child, especially as a new mom, even if it does require a major readjustment of our own perspective. But here's the thing, I can't speak on the experience of raising kids who do not have complex medical conditions. So I did take this opportunity to ask Kristyn, about that and the mental adjustment that is required when parenting a child without the same degree of health care needs as the firstborn. And as I mentioned at the top of this episode, as one might expect, there's no cut and dry answer. It's more complicated than that.

Erica 24:30

How long did it take you to adjust or to trust that Ozzie was healthy?

Kristyn 24:41

I am so glad that you asked this question. Not only was pregnancy, just a different experience, and, entirely of course because of IVF and the genetic testing components, but at every month every ultrasound milestone, I was waiting, right. Waiting for the news, especially that 20 week anatomy, ultrasound. And you know, would kind of question every time that it came back and things were looking good and in a way that I think it was kind of not met with confusion, but met with kind of this patience. It was met with patience from the medical professionals that were giving me news and giving me reassurance and all that. When Ozzie he was born, so Ozzy was born during COVID. So we were, you know, in the room, he was in the room the entire time, everyone who came in, was fully geared up, and no visitors just Kevin and me. Which I would, frankly, I was totally fine with that. I'm I know, there are many different experiences from women who have given birth during the pandemic. But I remember any medical professional that came in, any nurse that came in any time that the hospital pediatrician came in any tests that were run, I wanted to know, every detail. I was asking every follow up question. And anytime there was anything off the typical chart or results or anything, I was ready for that to be, you know, the start of the story, right. And there were small things that would happen. I think the first day, Ozzie didn't pass his hearing test. And I thought, "Oh, here we are, you know, this has got to be it." And, you know, the, the medical team, I forget if it was a doctor or nurse that told me that. And I, you know, saw they saw my heart kind of sink, right? And they said, "Oh, it's not a big deal. Many kids, we'll just retest tomorrow." And I'm like, "Yeah, okay. I'm sure." And so then, you know, spiraling down a terrible web of Google searches, and, you know, becoming medical mom, that that sleepless night, and only to find out that Ozzie passed his hearing test the next day. So, you know, lots, there were every time there was an inconsistency, or an abnormal result, I was immediately ready for the worst case scenario, because we've had the worst case scenario.

Erica 27:34

I bet you were already learning ASL by day two, right? Like, you're like, "How am I going to learn how to sign now I need this needs to happen before he even opens his eyes the next morning."